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Thursday, May 12, 2011

Alexander the Great’s Encounter With a Dinosaur?

"When Alexander threw some parts of India into a commotion and took possession of others he encountered among many other animals a Serpent which lived in a cavern and was regarded as sacred by the Indians who paid it great and superstitious reverence. Accordingly Indians went to all lengths imploring Alexander to permit nobody to attack the Serpent; and he assented to their wish. Now as the army passed by the cavern and caused a noise, the Serpent was aware of it. (It has, you know, the sharpest hearing and the keenest sight of all animals.) And it hissed and snorted so violently that all were terrified and confounded. It was reported to measure 70 cubits although it was not visible in all its length, for it only put its head out. At any rate its eyes are said to have been the size of a large, round Macedonian shield."
Aelianus, Claudius, On Animals, Book #XV, Chapter 19-23, c.210-230.

There are articles like this posted all the time on Christian websites. They are trying to show that dinosaurs have lived in fairly recent times, which means that Evolution is wrong about the idea that dinosaurs died off 65 million years ago.

Evolution does not say that dinosaurs must have died off 65 million years ago for the theory to be true. It says that it appears that dinosaurs died off 65 million years ago because that is what the evidence shows us. If a small group of dinosaurs were able to survive until modern times, that would not disprove evolution. Evolution is simply any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next.
It is important to note that biological evolution refers to populations and not to individuals and that the changes must be passed on to the next generation. In practice this means that, Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations. There is nothing is in this idea that says that any particular species must have died off at any given time.

Now, that does not mean I believe that Alexander actually encountered a dinosaur. But if he did or anyone else has in the last 5,000 years, it does not change anything in the theory. It only changes the time frame of how long the dinosaur species has lasted.

20 comments:

  1. Thanks for the interesting answer. I also don't understand how dinosaurs living recently apparently debunks evolution.

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  2. Interesting. I think your first point is true "They are trying to show that dinosaurs have lived in fairly recent times, which means that Evolution is wrong about the idea that dinosaurs died off 65 million years ago." Considering the number of accounts found I think there is some truth to it.
    The question is one of credibility. Why do evolutionists ignore of hide these accounts, like the account from Marco Polo?
    I agree, that modern dinosaurs do not challenge evolution directly, just time frames, yet I see commentators try to paint these accounts as if they are all crocs or gators.
    You should ask evolutionist friends why the fear of these accounts and why they are are not communicated with interest? (Who doesn't like a dinosaur story?
    I'd be interested in why only creationist sites make these postings?
    Cover-ups make me suspicious and who doesn't like a good conspiracy?

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  3. I would say that the reason that people who study Evolution ignore these accounts is also one of credibility. Since there is no evidence of dinosaurs existing for the past 65 million years, they discount anecdotal stories about the topic. However, I would be fascinated if we did find some.

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    1. If dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, then how could people know of them, to make up stories about them? How could they get the body details so accurate? How would they know the skin texture? These are all facts recorded in archaeology.

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    2. http://www.dinodatabase.com/dinothry06.asp

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    3. Thank you for the web address, Anonymous. Some were found showing a circular pattern. That website is wrong, apparently, on the archaeopteryx, though, as archaeopteryx may not have been a real animal. As far as I have heard, all fossils found have turned out to be forgeries.

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  4. Creationists are showing that the fossil record does not represent millions of years because dinosaurs co-existed with man and died out quite recently. There is an abundance of evidence to support this idea. And without millions of years, evolution collapses.

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  5. There are simply too many different dating systems that show the universe is billions of years old and that animals have existed for hundreds of millions of years.

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  6. I've been reading through several of your post. I like the idea of rational thought. I am a Christian, but I agree with you. I hate it when Christians try to make the Bible say something it doesn't. It cheapens faith and makes us look stupid. Now that doesn't mean that I agree with evolution. After all, it takes as much faith to believe in evolution as it does to believe in God. Evolution is not science. The Theory of Evolution is as much a religion as any other. Both sides are guilty of using minor evidence or heresay to try to prove a point. Take the pigs tooth for instance. True Science is something that is able to be reproduced over and over again in a lab. You can no more prove evolution than I can that God exist. Shame on all of us for trying to twist things to meet our own private agendas. I want to believe in God, you don't...big deal. We'll all find out the truth someday when we die and then it will be to late to matter. What say you?

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    1. Michael Wolfe, I read your response. I would say Christians should never refer to a myth as a theory. If you search the Webster's 1828 definition of "theory," you read, "Theory is distinguished from hypothesis thus; a theory is founded on inferences drawn from principles which have been established on independent evidence; a hypothesis is a proposition assumed to account for certain phenomena, and has no other evidence of its truth, than that it affords a satisfactory explanation of those phenomena." Evolution cannot be a theory, as it is not testable, viewable, or in agreement with already established rules of science and physics. We KNOW a worldwide flood happened in the time of Noah, but it is also inaccurate if someone things it was caused by an asteroid or anything else, to call their pet belief a theory. We cannot repeat a worldwide flood and cannot test to see if it was caused by an asteroid or a breaking up of the firmament or anything else. You could call it a hypothesis, as either might fit within the bounds of known(or at least currently accepted) science. Evolution does not even fit as a hypothesis, because it contradicts already known laws of physics such as the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the Law of Angular Momentum. That is, some planets/moons/stars rotate in one way, and some in another. Some spin one way, and some another. Some rotate one way, but spin a different way. Some spin one way, but rotate a different way. With the Big Dud...er Bang Theory, the Law of Angular Momentum applies, which will not allow for varying spins and rotations. When a grenade blows, or a building, or anything, all materials spin in the same direction as they leave the origin point.

      It is not a theory. It is not a hypothesis. It is a myth. Time is evolution's magic kiss that turns a frog into a Prince.

      "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23

      "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

      "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

      "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

      “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:19-20

      "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

      "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

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  7. I realize this is an old discussion but if I found it then I am sure others are seeing it too. Just to be clear, if dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago, then they are all long dead by now. The odds of even a single one surviving would have to be beyond astronomical. Humans (according to modern theory) have only been around for 200,000 years. I am not going to take the time to do the math but dinosaurs would have had to survive thousands of times that long with no medicine, technology, self-awareness, and in a world that is no longer designed to support them... If dinosaurs lived recently, it does not have to debunk evolution, it proves that modern theories are exactly what they sound like, silly childish fairy tales. It debunks the "scientists" that cling to the evolution religion.

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    1. Quick edit, I went ahead and did the math because I felt like I was really exaggerating that number, its 325 times. That is all.

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  8. Dog Variability. When bred for certain traits, dogs become different and distinctive. This is a common example of microevolution—changes in size, shape, and color—or minor genetic alterations. It is not macroevolution: an upward, beneficial increase in complexity, as evolutionists claim happened millions of times between bacteria and man. Macroevolution has never been observed in any breeding experiment.

    http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/LifeSciences.html

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  9. I like that this was posted. Finally and honest, unbiased answer from a nonbeliever. Truly rational and unbiased, you hold up to the claim. Still not going to tell Alexander the Great (well known historical figure), his frightened army, or those Indians what they saw though.

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  10. I like that this was posted. Finally and honest, unbiased answer from a nonbeliever. Truly rational and unbiased, you hold up to the claim. Still not going to tell Alexander the Great (well known historical figure), his frightened army, or those Indians what they saw though.

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  11. Evolution is scientifically impossible but atheists will never admit it. As for dinosaurs Marco Polo and Alexander the great are just a couple of people in history who describe seeing these things with their own eyes.

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  12. Thank you, JWDixon, for not simply rejecting the claim of Alexander III, since it does not appear to agree with your beliefs of history. The ancient Indians of North America record T-Rex type dragons and stegasaurus types in the cave drawings, such as at Grand Canyon. The Ica Stones record not only these animals, but also skin texture and that some were used for locomotion as the horse. Marco Polo speaks of them in China and that they were walking in the parades. Nerluc, and others are mentioned in France and Europe. The Bible mentions dragons frequently, and at least one in Scripture is also recorded by Josephus, and you may already know he is counted as factually accurate by both Creationists and Evolutionists. It is very interesting. I believe dragons(old term for dinosaurs) have lived until recent times and some may still be living, although some are much smaller, such as the brachiasaur/brontasaur type in the Congo, known as Mkelle Mbembe. Those in the Congo have come to america and speak with hatred of the pterodactyl species that uncover the dead unless they bury their family members under many stones. They also say that the birds glow apparently from a fluorescence.

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  13. If there have been many dinosaurs living in the past 5,000 years, it should not be difficult to find the remains of one that dates to that time period. However, everything we find is 65 million years old or older. What you have is stories and, I m sorry to inform you, stories is not what science is based upon. When you can provide actual evidence of dinosaurs from 5,000 or 500 years ago, then the scientific world will accept that. However, it will not change the reality that dinosaurs also lived 65 + million years ago.

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    1. Anonymous, there is a ton of evidence that not many, but some dinosaurs have lived in recent times. There are very many first hand accounts in recent past(like hundreds of years ago), there are many old drawings, before men found fossils, there are modern day sightings by people of report, and there are the occasional bodies discovered. These are often photographed and then the body "disappears."

      A good source for evidence are the Dr. Kent Hovind Creation Seminar videos. https://arrivalofthefittest.com/multimedia/creation-science-evangelism You can click on the videos to watch them, or right click to download. He shows a lot of evidence of living dinos now.

      "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23

      "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

      "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

      "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

      “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:19-20

      "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

      "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

      Delete